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	<title>Comments on: Unsucky English, Lecture 1: On Gilgamesh, and Dangerous Questions</title>
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	<description>More learning. Less schooliness.</description>
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		<title>By: Julie</title>
		<link>http://beyond-school.org/2008/08/26/gilgamesh1/comment-page-2/#comment-12529</link>
		<dc:creator>Julie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Jan 2010 16:51:35 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Hi, Clay,
I like that political reading; in class my students and I discussed this point, and we concluded that even if it is Gilgamesh&#039;s birthright to have the brides first he is abusing the privilege. The ceremonial aspect of the one Enkidu interrupts perhaps makes it different from the other instances (?), and thus the insult to Gilgamesh (and by extension the gods) requires the two of them to fight at that point. Since Enkidu is so incensed by the practice, his position is perhaps one of rebel against unfair religious doctrine; further, as representative of the &quot;natural order,&quot; Enkidu&#039;s opposition may symbolize that this religous ritual is *not* natural. On the other hand, Gilgamesh, as representative of civilization/organized religion via his 2/3 godhood, abuses his privilege and therefore, Enkidu&#039;s opposition may simply be rebellion against a tyrant rather than against the institution itself.

We moved on quickly, unfortunately (demands of a one semester world lit survey), so I didn&#039;t get a chance to think about this idea much further. It could fit nicely into Damrosch&#039;s political reading.

Thanks for the pointer towards the Damrosch text--I&#039;ll check it out.

Best,
Julie</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi, Clay,<br />
I like that political reading; in class my students and I discussed this point, and we concluded that even if it is Gilgamesh&#8217;s birthright to have the brides first he is abusing the privilege. The ceremonial aspect of the one Enkidu interrupts perhaps makes it different from the other instances (?), and thus the insult to Gilgamesh (and by extension the gods) requires the two of them to fight at that point. Since Enkidu is so incensed by the practice, his position is perhaps one of rebel against unfair religious doctrine; further, as representative of the &#8220;natural order,&#8221; Enkidu&#8217;s opposition may symbolize that this religous ritual is *not* natural. On the other hand, Gilgamesh, as representative of civilization/organized religion via his 2/3 godhood, abuses his privilege and therefore, Enkidu&#8217;s opposition may simply be rebellion against a tyrant rather than against the institution itself.</p>
<p>We moved on quickly, unfortunately (demands of a one semester world lit survey), so I didn&#8217;t get a chance to think about this idea much further. It could fit nicely into Damrosch&#8217;s political reading.</p>
<p>Thanks for the pointer towards the Damrosch text&#8211;I&#8217;ll check it out.</p>
<p>Best,<br />
Julie</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Clay Burell</title>
		<link>http://beyond-school.org/2008/08/26/gilgamesh1/comment-page-2/#comment-12509</link>
		<dc:creator>Clay Burell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Jan 2010 03:05:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://beyond-school.org/?p=1012#comment-12509</guid>
		<description>Hi Julie,

Thanks for chiming in with a great question. (So great I&#039;m interrupting my planning period at school to answer it!)

You make me want to go back and look at the section more closely, which I don&#039;t have time to do right now. But it also prompts a few connections I can make off the cuff from my holiday reading of Damrosch&#039;s &lt;i&gt;The Buried Book&lt;/i&gt; about the epic.

He reads it with a much more political emphasis than I do, and his reading is surely valid. He sees, for example, Enkidu&#039;s transformation into fanatical killer of Humbaba and insulter of Ishtar as representing bad royal counsel and its consequences to society. So the &quot;back-handed criticism of the gods&quot; if they do indeed grant Gil this right seems to fit in that line of interpretation.

At the same time, the gods themselves seem not to approve of it, since they intervene with Enkidu&#039;s creation in response to the people&#039;s complaints. But I guess this, too, could be read as another poetic attempt at delivering a political message about bad religious customs that need reforming.

I really want to read more closely into the evolution of the epic from its Sumerian origins into the Old Babylonian and the 12th Century &quot;Standard&quot; version. Lots of changes were made along the way, which offers food for thought on the (Babylonian) &quot;Modern&quot; versus (Sumerian and early Akkadian) &quot;Ancient&quot; beliefs and customs. 

Anyway, back to the planning. Thoughts?

Take care.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Julie,</p>
<p>Thanks for chiming in with a great question. (So great I&#8217;m interrupting my planning period at school to answer it!)</p>
<p>You make me want to go back and look at the section more closely, which I don&#8217;t have time to do right now. But it also prompts a few connections I can make off the cuff from my holiday reading of Damrosch&#8217;s <i>The Buried Book</i> about the epic.</p>
<p>He reads it with a much more political emphasis than I do, and his reading is surely valid. He sees, for example, Enkidu&#8217;s transformation into fanatical killer of Humbaba and insulter of Ishtar as representing bad royal counsel and its consequences to society. So the &#8220;back-handed criticism of the gods&#8221; if they do indeed grant Gil this right seems to fit in that line of interpretation.</p>
<p>At the same time, the gods themselves seem not to approve of it, since they intervene with Enkidu&#8217;s creation in response to the people&#8217;s complaints. But I guess this, too, could be read as another poetic attempt at delivering a political message about bad religious customs that need reforming.</p>
<p>I really want to read more closely into the evolution of the epic from its Sumerian origins into the Old Babylonian and the 12th Century &#8220;Standard&#8221; version. Lots of changes were made along the way, which offers food for thought on the (Babylonian) &#8220;Modern&#8221; versus (Sumerian and early Akkadian) &#8220;Ancient&#8221; beliefs and customs. </p>
<p>Anyway, back to the planning. Thoughts?</p>
<p>Take care.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Julie</title>
		<link>http://beyond-school.org/2008/08/26/gilgamesh1/comment-page-2/#comment-12507</link>
		<dc:creator>Julie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Jan 2010 02:43:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://beyond-school.org/?p=1012#comment-12507</guid>
		<description>Hi, 
Love your writing! I also dig Gilgamesh, and teach it every semester with much the same approach as you seem to take here. I am enjoying your musings on it. I wanted to ask (and haven&#039;t read all the feedback/replies, so don&#039;t know if you have already addressed this) about your assertion that Gilgamesh&#039;s behavior early on w/the brides was his choice. The text (and I&#039;ve read several versions now) clearly states that this &quot;right&quot; was given to him by the gods--it is called a &quot;birthright&quot; on several occasions in Tablet I. So the people&#039;s complaints about Gilgamesh being a bad shepherd are really (backhandedly) about the gods&#039; decree that he could take the bride first. Also, it seemed kind of.. ceremonial, really, at least in the scene where Enkidu stops him. It&#039;s described as part of a ritual, almost. Wondering what (if anything) might change about your discussion of this point given a different look at why Gilgamesh behaves this way.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts!
Julie</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi,<br />
Love your writing! I also dig Gilgamesh, and teach it every semester with much the same approach as you seem to take here. I am enjoying your musings on it. I wanted to ask (and haven&#8217;t read all the feedback/replies, so don&#8217;t know if you have already addressed this) about your assertion that Gilgamesh&#8217;s behavior early on w/the brides was his choice. The text (and I&#8217;ve read several versions now) clearly states that this &#8220;right&#8221; was given to him by the gods&#8211;it is called a &#8220;birthright&#8221; on several occasions in Tablet I. So the people&#8217;s complaints about Gilgamesh being a bad shepherd are really (backhandedly) about the gods&#8217; decree that he could take the bride first. Also, it seemed kind of.. ceremonial, really, at least in the scene where Enkidu stops him. It&#8217;s described as part of a ritual, almost. Wondering what (if anything) might change about your discussion of this point given a different look at why Gilgamesh behaves this way.</p>
<p>Thanks for sharing your thoughts!<br />
Julie</p>
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		<title>By: How Modern People Read at Beyond School</title>
		<link>http://beyond-school.org/2008/08/26/gilgamesh1/comment-page-2/#comment-11127</link>
		<dc:creator>How Modern People Read at Beyond School</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Jan 2010 19:20:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://beyond-school.org/?p=1012#comment-11127</guid>
		<description>[...] been expecting it to teach me too. Another Old Book that was supposed to be Wise. That&#8217;s not how I read it now, thank [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] been expecting it to teach me too. Another Old Book that was supposed to be Wise. That&#8217;s not how I read it now, thank [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: On Using Technology Without Understanding It at Beyond School</title>
		<link>http://beyond-school.org/2008/08/26/gilgamesh1/comment-page-2/#comment-10406</link>
		<dc:creator>On Using Technology Without Understanding It at Beyond School</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Dec 2009 03:26:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://beyond-school.org/?p=1012#comment-10406</guid>
		<description>[...] none other than Gilgamesh, about which I&#8217;ve written about 20,000 words over the last year here, on this simple blog. She&#8217;d read my take, and said it was exactly the kind of approach and [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] none other than Gilgamesh, about which I&#8217;ve written about 20,000 words over the last year here, on this simple blog. She&#8217;d read my take, and said it was exactly the kind of approach and [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Rumors of My Death &#124; Beyond School</title>
		<link>http://beyond-school.org/2008/08/26/gilgamesh1/comment-page-2/#comment-8511</link>
		<dc:creator>Rumors of My Death &#124; Beyond School</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Nov 2009 07:02:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://beyond-school.org/?p=1012#comment-8511</guid>
		<description>[...] &#8220;piano&#8221; to &#8220;Gilgamesh&#8221; and there&#8217;s not much more to [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] &#8220;piano&#8221; to &#8220;Gilgamesh&#8221; and there&#8217;s not much more to [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Gilgamesh and the Original Original Sin: Unsucky English Lecture 9 &#124; Beyond School</title>
		<link>http://beyond-school.org/2008/08/26/gilgamesh1/comment-page-2/#comment-8022</link>
		<dc:creator>Gilgamesh and the Original Original Sin: Unsucky English Lecture 9 &#124; Beyond School</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Jun 2009 06:32:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://beyond-school.org/?p=1012#comment-8022</guid>
		<description>[...] the &#8220;double that balances&#8221; motif? The &#8220;balance&#8221; seems to be thrown off when natural Enkidu leaves the wild, [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] the &#8220;double that balances&#8221; motif? The &#8220;balance&#8221; seems to be thrown off when natural Enkidu leaves the wild, [...]</p>
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