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	<title>Comments on: Open Thread: Questioning Global Collaboration: Does Flat Fall Flat for Teens?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://beyond-school.org/2008/07/25/flat-too-flat-for-teens/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://beyond-school.org/2008/07/25/flat-too-flat-for-teens/</link>
	<description>A field headquarters in the War on Schooliness.</description>
	<pubDate>Mon, 01 Dec 2008 21:19:21 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: My Wikispaces in Education Webinar Presentation Video is Up &#124; Beyond School</title>
		<link>http://beyond-school.org/2008/07/25/flat-too-flat-for-teens/#comment-6114</link>
		<dc:creator>My Wikispaces in Education Webinar Presentation Video is Up &#124; Beyond School</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Oct 2008 06:38:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://beyond-school.org/?p=753#comment-6114</guid>
		<description>[...] The first three projects listed above were &#8220;local&#8221; collaborations, the fourth one global. I discuss in the webinar my thoughts on the relative merits of both approaches in the webinar. (I posted about those reflections most fully here.) [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] The first three projects listed above were &#8220;local&#8221; collaborations, the fourth one global. I discuss in the webinar my thoughts on the relative merits of both approaches in the webinar. (I posted about those reflections most fully here.) [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Dean Groom</title>
		<link>http://beyond-school.org/2008/07/25/flat-too-flat-for-teens/#comment-4944</link>
		<dc:creator>Dean Groom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Aug 2008 13:30:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://beyond-school.org/?p=753#comment-4944</guid>
		<description>The world is about as big as your next click as far as students are concerned. I am not even sure they are able to conceptualize 'connected over distance'. They are connected at the hip to their friends through technology, and everything else appears 'distance-less'. Collaboration is massively limited by time-zone, so real time (in Australia) is really hard to deliver as a 'norm expectation' in classroom learning. The AT&#38;T ad that promotes that ideal, is significantly floored in that regard. Collaboration is a skill, driven by need and should start in your classroom and ripple out ... if the ripple is strong enough to reach other shores. The teachers desire to 'go global' is admirable. But you have to prove to kids that its worth the effort. I think they they see the enthusiasm we often have to 'go global' as rather amusing. Perhaps they are more amused at the outburst of passion than they are by the project delivery.

Local issues can link to wider ones - but meta-cognition goes a long way in propelling the ripple I think.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The world is about as big as your next click as far as students are concerned. I am not even sure they are able to conceptualize &#8216;connected over distance&#8217;. They are connected at the hip to their friends through technology, and everything else appears &#8216;distance-less&#8217;. Collaboration is massively limited by time-zone, so real time (in Australia) is really hard to deliver as a &#8216;norm expectation&#8217; in classroom learning. The AT&amp;T ad that promotes that ideal, is significantly floored in that regard. Collaboration is a skill, driven by need and should start in your classroom and ripple out &#8230; if the ripple is strong enough to reach other shores. The teachers desire to &#8216;go global&#8217; is admirable. But you have to prove to kids that its worth the effort. I think they they see the enthusiasm we often have to &#8216;go global&#8217; as rather amusing. Perhaps they are more amused at the outburst of passion than they are by the project delivery.</p>
<p>Local issues can link to wider ones - but meta-cognition goes a long way in propelling the ripple I think.</p>
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		<title>By: Writing and Revision - to Re-see &#171; Living on the Lip of Insanity</title>
		<link>http://beyond-school.org/2008/07/25/flat-too-flat-for-teens/#comment-4933</link>
		<dc:creator>Writing and Revision - to Re-see &#171; Living on the Lip of Insanity</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Aug 2008 04:29:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://beyond-school.org/?p=753#comment-4933</guid>
		<description>[...] 13, 2008 by Kate Tabor    Thanks to Clay Burrell for asking me to consider finishing this [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] 13, 2008 by Kate Tabor    Thanks to Clay Burrell for asking me to consider finishing this [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Latest Diigo Bookmarks (weekly)</title>
		<link>http://beyond-school.org/2008/07/25/flat-too-flat-for-teens/#comment-4787</link>
		<dc:creator>Latest Diigo Bookmarks (weekly)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Aug 2008 00:36:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://beyond-school.org/?p=753#comment-4787</guid>
		<description>[...] Does Flat Fall Flat for Teens? Re-thinking Global Collaborative Learning Projects &#124; Beyond School [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Does Flat Fall Flat for Teens? Re-thinking Global Collaborative Learning Projects | Beyond School [...]</p>
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		<title>By: George</title>
		<link>http://beyond-school.org/2008/07/25/flat-too-flat-for-teens/#comment-4757</link>
		<dc:creator>George</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jul 2008 18:10:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://beyond-school.org/?p=753#comment-4757</guid>
		<description>Sorry for being late! I am slowly going through this but, here is the response I posted on danah's blog post. [you have my email if you're still interested]

I don't think that teens lack the psychocosial foundations of connecting with the world. For the past 4 years, we have held global projects connecting 3 million students from across the world with each other and with experts investigating environmental change and life in the Arctic regions of the world. Their experiences caused change rarely seen in the regular old classroom. In other words, they initiated action within their own community, holding fundraisers, carving dogsleds (the projects have to do with dogsleding across the arctic), and striving to teach others (adults and teens alike) that local actions have global implications... My perspective is that teens are ready. We just need to figure out the best way to get them excited about such projects. If you just tell them "hey look, here's a kid in Greece, talk to her" I don't think you'll be seeing much "change."</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry for being late! I am slowly going through this but, here is the response I posted on danah&#8217;s blog post. [you have my email if you're still interested]</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think that teens lack the psychocosial foundations of connecting with the world. For the past 4 years, we have held global projects connecting 3 million students from across the world with each other and with experts investigating environmental change and life in the Arctic regions of the world. Their experiences caused change rarely seen in the regular old classroom. In other words, they initiated action within their own community, holding fundraisers, carving dogsleds (the projects have to do with dogsleding across the arctic), and striving to teach others (adults and teens alike) that local actions have global implications&#8230; My perspective is that teens are ready. We just need to figure out the best way to get them excited about such projects. If you just tell them &#8220;hey look, here&#8217;s a kid in Greece, talk to her&#8221; I don&#8217;t think you&#8217;ll be seeing much &#8220;change.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Estie Cuellar</title>
		<link>http://beyond-school.org/2008/07/25/flat-too-flat-for-teens/#comment-4742</link>
		<dc:creator>Estie Cuellar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jul 2008 15:05:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://beyond-school.org/?p=753#comment-4742</guid>
		<description>I'd like to weigh in on this topic from a different perspective.  I left "Corporate America" several years back to teach Career and Technology Education classes to high school youth.  I made this leap because I was tired of improving a corporate bottom line--I wanted to do 'something' to improve the lives of young people in what is an increasingly competitive job market (not to mention getting into college!).  

With that said...my perspective is shaped, honed, skewed (possibly) from a business perspective.  While I admit that I am a newbie with regard to wikis and global collaboration in my classroom, I am a seasoned veteran with regard to building and sustaining a competitive advantage in the workplace.

In my estimation, our students need all types of collaboration--building, local, national, and global.  And, as others have already stated we can't collaborate just for collaboration's sake.  Young adults (all of us, actually) are always asking, "So what?"  As educators it's our responsibility to answer all of the 'so what' questions before they are asked...we have to let the students know up front 'what's in it for them.'  If the content isn't relevant, if they can't make the connection(s) on how they can apply (in the 'real world') what they are to learn, then what's the point?

I consider it my 'duty' if you will to prepare my students for the inordinate amount of (and sometimes downright nasty) competition they will face as they enter the marketplace.  In addition, I am driven to teach my students how to build and sustain a competitive advantage in both college and career.  By participating in meaningful collaboration projects (be they global or otherwise), students are exposed to another valuable learning tool that will help them build that advantage.

Estie Cuellars last blog post..&lt;a href="http://estiesgifts.blogspot.com/2008/07/thing-20-youtube-and-teachertube-part-2.html" rel="nofollow"&gt;Thing #20 YouTube and TeacherTube (part 2)&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d like to weigh in on this topic from a different perspective.  I left &#8220;Corporate America&#8221; several years back to teach Career and Technology Education classes to high school youth.  I made this leap because I was tired of improving a corporate bottom line&#8211;I wanted to do &#8217;something&#8217; to improve the lives of young people in what is an increasingly competitive job market (not to mention getting into college!).  </p>
<p>With that said&#8230;my perspective is shaped, honed, skewed (possibly) from a business perspective.  While I admit that I am a newbie with regard to wikis and global collaboration in my classroom, I am a seasoned veteran with regard to building and sustaining a competitive advantage in the workplace.</p>
<p>In my estimation, our students need all types of collaboration&#8211;building, local, national, and global.  And, as others have already stated we can&#8217;t collaborate just for collaboration&#8217;s sake.  Young adults (all of us, actually) are always asking, &#8220;So what?&#8221;  As educators it&#8217;s our responsibility to answer all of the &#8217;so what&#8217; questions before they are asked&#8230;we have to let the students know up front &#8216;what&#8217;s in it for them.&#8217;  If the content isn&#8217;t relevant, if they can&#8217;t make the connection(s) on how they can apply (in the &#8216;real world&#8217;) what they are to learn, then what&#8217;s the point?</p>
<p>I consider it my &#8216;duty&#8217; if you will to prepare my students for the inordinate amount of (and sometimes downright nasty) competition they will face as they enter the marketplace.  In addition, I am driven to teach my students how to build and sustain a competitive advantage in both college and career.  By participating in meaningful collaboration projects (be they global or otherwise), students are exposed to another valuable learning tool that will help them build that advantage.</p>
<p>Estie Cuellars last blog post..<a href="http://estiesgifts.blogspot.com/2008/07/thing-20-youtube-and-teachertube-part-2.html" rel="nofollow">Thing #20 YouTube and TeacherTube (part 2)</a></p>
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		<title>By: Gregory Louie</title>
		<link>http://beyond-school.org/2008/07/25/flat-too-flat-for-teens/#comment-4717</link>
		<dc:creator>Gregory Louie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jul 2008 14:21:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://beyond-school.org/?p=753#comment-4717</guid>
		<description>Hi All,

I love the lyrics in this song sung by Kathy Mattea and written by Pat Alger and Ralph Murphy.  It reminds me of the wisdom of taking the longer perspective when working with students.  

"Sometimes I stop on my way home
And watch the children play
And I wonder if they wonder
What they'll be someday
Some will dream a big dream
And make it all come true
While others go on dreaming
Of things they'll never do
We're all just seeds
In God's hands
We start the same
But where we land
Is sometimes fertile soil
And sometimes sand
We're all just seeds
In God's hands
I saw a friend the other day
I hardly recognized
He'd done a lot of living
Since I'd last looked in his eyes
He told his tale of how he'd failed
The lessons he'd been taught
But he offered no excuses
And he left me with this thought
We're all just seeds
In God's hands
We start the same
But where we land
Is sometimes fertile soil
And sometimes sand
We're all just seeds
In God's hands
As I'm standing at a crossroads once again
I'm reminded we're all the same when we begin
And in the end...
We're all just seeds
In God's hands
We start the same
But where we land
Is sometimes fertile soil
And sometimes sand
We're all just seeds
In God's hands
We're all just seeds
In God's hands"

I love the sentiments expressed here.  Looking back to those confused teenage periods in my own life, I see how my best teachers planted some powerful seeds.  The most powerful where ones that eventually formed the foundations of my own philosophy of being in the world by exposing me to the wisdom of ancient cultures.  These were the seeds that formed the basis for the understanding of my own soul.  

I wonder what I would have said about those lessons back when I was a teenager.  I expect I would have mocked them like so many others of my peer group, but that mocking would not have truly reflected the impact those lessons had in forming my way of being in the world.

As a teacher, I try to develop the mindset of one of my many mentors, the one who plants trees.  He told me that he plants them not from himself, but for his children's children.  His is a perspective that has wisdom and honors the totality of the human life span.

So I teach, innovate where I can and continue to hope and trust that seeds planted today will grow in unknowable but profound and beautiful ways.
  
All the best in everything that you do,

Greg</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi All,</p>
<p>I love the lyrics in this song sung by Kathy Mattea and written by Pat Alger and Ralph Murphy.  It reminds me of the wisdom of taking the longer perspective when working with students.  </p>
<p>&#8220;Sometimes I stop on my way home<br />
And watch the children play<br />
And I wonder if they wonder<br />
What they&#8217;ll be someday<br />
Some will dream a big dream<br />
And make it all come true<br />
While others go on dreaming<br />
Of things they&#8217;ll never do<br />
We&#8217;re all just seeds<br />
In God&#8217;s hands<br />
We start the same<br />
But where we land<br />
Is sometimes fertile soil<br />
And sometimes sand<br />
We&#8217;re all just seeds<br />
In God&#8217;s hands<br />
I saw a friend the other day<br />
I hardly recognized<br />
He&#8217;d done a lot of living<br />
Since I&#8217;d last looked in his eyes<br />
He told his tale of how he&#8217;d failed<br />
The lessons he&#8217;d been taught<br />
But he offered no excuses<br />
And he left me with this thought<br />
We&#8217;re all just seeds<br />
In God&#8217;s hands<br />
We start the same<br />
But where we land<br />
Is sometimes fertile soil<br />
And sometimes sand<br />
We&#8217;re all just seeds<br />
In God&#8217;s hands<br />
As I&#8217;m standing at a crossroads once again<br />
I&#8217;m reminded we&#8217;re all the same when we begin<br />
And in the end&#8230;<br />
We&#8217;re all just seeds<br />
In God&#8217;s hands<br />
We start the same<br />
But where we land<br />
Is sometimes fertile soil<br />
And sometimes sand<br />
We&#8217;re all just seeds<br />
In God&#8217;s hands<br />
We&#8217;re all just seeds<br />
In God&#8217;s hands&#8221;</p>
<p>I love the sentiments expressed here.  Looking back to those confused teenage periods in my own life, I see how my best teachers planted some powerful seeds.  The most powerful where ones that eventually formed the foundations of my own philosophy of being in the world by exposing me to the wisdom of ancient cultures.  These were the seeds that formed the basis for the understanding of my own soul.  </p>
<p>I wonder what I would have said about those lessons back when I was a teenager.  I expect I would have mocked them like so many others of my peer group, but that mocking would not have truly reflected the impact those lessons had in forming my way of being in the world.</p>
<p>As a teacher, I try to develop the mindset of one of my many mentors, the one who plants trees.  He told me that he plants them not from himself, but for his children&#8217;s children.  His is a perspective that has wisdom and honors the totality of the human life span.</p>
<p>So I teach, innovate where I can and continue to hope and trust that seeds planted today will grow in unknowable but profound and beautiful ways.</p>
<p>All the best in everything that you do,</p>
<p>Greg</p>
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		<title>By: Clay Burell</title>
		<link>http://beyond-school.org/2008/07/25/flat-too-flat-for-teens/#comment-4716</link>
		<dc:creator>Clay Burell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jul 2008 10:45:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://beyond-school.org/?p=753#comment-4716</guid>
		<description>Hi Julie,

I read your full post on your own blog, and nodded in agreement with most of what you had to say.

I especially liked the "beyond the wow" thrust of it all, which dovetails nicely with several other comments about not doing it for its own sake, but only when there's a good purpose for it.

I'm still unable to let go of the idea that, at this developmental stage, local collaborations geared toward local action and connection might serve as good "training wheels" before pushing kids off to ride global bicycles alone (and that's one mangled metaphor, but I hope you get my drift).  

In other words, "Think globally, act locally" might still be good advice for leading kids out from their classrooms and into the world - but first their close world, and later, the far one. Local citizenship, as Morgante noted above, has more immediate and personal results; and more importantly, aims to improve the local community. That's something best done by the local players, students included.

Which is not to say there's not room for both. 

Thanks for weighing in. 

Would you like that statue in bronze, or marble?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Julie,</p>
<p>I read your full post on your own blog, and nodded in agreement with most of what you had to say.</p>
<p>I especially liked the &#8220;beyond the wow&#8221; thrust of it all, which dovetails nicely with several other comments about not doing it for its own sake, but only when there&#8217;s a good purpose for it.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m still unable to let go of the idea that, at this developmental stage, local collaborations geared toward local action and connection might serve as good &#8220;training wheels&#8221; before pushing kids off to ride global bicycles alone (and that&#8217;s one mangled metaphor, but I hope you get my drift).  </p>
<p>In other words, &#8220;Think globally, act locally&#8221; might still be good advice for leading kids out from their classrooms and into the world - but first their close world, and later, the far one. Local citizenship, as Morgante noted above, has more immediate and personal results; and more importantly, aims to improve the local community. That&#8217;s something best done by the local players, students included.</p>
<p>Which is not to say there&#8217;s not room for both. </p>
<p>Thanks for weighing in. </p>
<p>Would you like that statue in bronze, or marble?</p>
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		<title>By: E-Learning Journeys: Beyond the 'Wow': Embed the Flat Learning Experience for Sustainabiliy</title>
		<link>http://beyond-school.org/2008/07/25/flat-too-flat-for-teens/#comment-4712</link>
		<dc:creator>E-Learning Journeys: Beyond the 'Wow': Embed the Flat Learning Experience for Sustainabiliy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Jul 2008 22:59:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://beyond-school.org/?p=753#comment-4712</guid>
		<description>&lt;!--%kramer-ref-pre%--&gt;[...] for his kind words about our Flat Classroom Projects and for starting the conversation about 'Does Flat Fall Flat for Teens?' The comment responses to his blog post many and interesting to read, as is Vicki Davis' response [...]&lt;!--%kramer-ref-post%--&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://dev.wp-plugins.org/wiki/Kramer"><img src="http://beyond-school.org/nfs/c01/h03/mnt/32929/domains/beyond-school.org/html/wp-content/plugins/kramer/kramer.php?kramer=gif-icon" class="technorati-balloon" alt="Kramer auto Pingback" style="border:0;" /></a>[...] for his kind words about our Flat Classroom Projects and for starting the conversation about &#8216;Does Flat Fall Flat for Teens?&#8217; The comment responses to his blog post many and interesting to read, as is Vicki Davis&#8217; response [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Drupal</title>
		<link>http://beyond-school.org/2008/07/25/flat-too-flat-for-teens/#comment-4711</link>
		<dc:creator>Drupal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Jul 2008 22:28:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://beyond-school.org/?p=753#comment-4711</guid>
		<description>&lt;!--%kramer-ref-pre%--&gt;[...] moderated, maybe it was spammed, maybe some cyber-Cerberus ate it on the banks of the thread) ... READ MORE[rsslist:http://beyond-school.org/2008/07/25/flat-too-flat-for-teens/]    Social Enterprise   Feed: [...]&lt;!--%kramer-ref-post%--&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://dev.wp-plugins.org/wiki/Kramer"><img src="http://beyond-school.org/nfs/c01/h03/mnt/32929/domains/beyond-school.org/html/wp-content/plugins/kramer/kramer.php?kramer=gif-icon" class="technorati-balloon" alt="Kramer auto Pingback" style="border:0;" /></a>[...] moderated, maybe it was spammed, maybe some cyber-Cerberus ate it on the banks of the thread) &#8230; READ MORE[rsslist:http://beyond-school.org/2008/07/25/flat-too-flat-for-teens/]    Social Enterprise   Feed: [...]</p>
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