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	<title>Comments on: Taking Back Teaching: A Forgotten History</title>
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	<link>http://beyond-school.org/2008/06/10/taking-back-teaching/</link>
	<description>More learning. Less schooliness.</description>
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		<title>By: Bill Swan</title>
		<link>http://beyond-school.org/2008/06/10/taking-back-teaching/comment-page-1/#comment-8459</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill Swan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Oct 2009 19:59:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://beyond-school.org/?p=716#comment-8459</guid>
		<description>Yes: society &#039;requires&#039; grades. And yes, employees are evaluated.
But employees are not &#039;graded&#039; on a continuum. Usually, school grades simply indicate an evaluation -- not on what has been learned but on how well the student fits within the classroom setting.
Worse, society now uses degrees, diplomas, and courses completed as an &#039;evaluation&#039; -- and slots people into pay bands according to an accumulation of such paper regardless of capability and performance. HR departments jump from the observation that those with more education &#039;tend&#039; to earn higher pay, to those with more education &#039;deserve&#039;. To codify this, surveys are taken of the pay of all people with similar education and responsibilities across industries to establish norms. Then people are paid according to their &#039;norm&#039;. 
True, students have been conditioned to demand &#039;marks&#039;. This is likely because gaining marks is easier than learning stuff. 
What works? Well, the Red Cross swimming badge has worked it out. To get the first level you have to swim across the pool; to get the second, swim the length; the next, two lengths. And so on. The principle: define the performance the learning requires, then evaluation is simple: either the student can or cannot do it. It he/she can, then the requirements are complete. If not, keep working until it is. This requires a breakdown of calendar-based education, of course. You work with a teacher until the performance is at the level expected.
This gets rid of the horrid D, C, or even &#039;B&quot; grading. Ask even the dimmest, laziest student if he would pay full price for concert tickets to a &#039;C&#039; band, or have her hair styled by a &#039;C&#039; level stylist, and you&#039;ll get your answer.
Yes, this would require a big effort to rid society of its expectations (of grades and marks). The reality is that grades are used now simply as gatekeeper to another level of education. What a waste of effort, especially when it means next to nothing.

Bill</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes: society &#8216;requires&#8217; grades. And yes, employees are evaluated.<br />
But employees are not &#8216;graded&#8217; on a continuum. Usually, school grades simply indicate an evaluation &#8212; not on what has been learned but on how well the student fits within the classroom setting.<br />
Worse, society now uses degrees, diplomas, and courses completed as an &#8216;evaluation&#8217; &#8212; and slots people into pay bands according to an accumulation of such paper regardless of capability and performance. HR departments jump from the observation that those with more education &#8216;tend&#8217; to earn higher pay, to those with more education &#8216;deserve&#8217;. To codify this, surveys are taken of the pay of all people with similar education and responsibilities across industries to establish norms. Then people are paid according to their &#8216;norm&#8217;.<br />
True, students have been conditioned to demand &#8216;marks&#8217;. This is likely because gaining marks is easier than learning stuff.<br />
What works? Well, the Red Cross swimming badge has worked it out. To get the first level you have to swim across the pool; to get the second, swim the length; the next, two lengths. And so on. The principle: define the performance the learning requires, then evaluation is simple: either the student can or cannot do it. It he/she can, then the requirements are complete. If not, keep working until it is. This requires a breakdown of calendar-based education, of course. You work with a teacher until the performance is at the level expected.<br />
This gets rid of the horrid D, C, or even &#8216;B&#8221; grading. Ask even the dimmest, laziest student if he would pay full price for concert tickets to a &#8216;C&#8217; band, or have her hair styled by a &#8216;C&#8217; level stylist, and you&#8217;ll get your answer.<br />
Yes, this would require a big effort to rid society of its expectations (of grades and marks). The reality is that grades are used now simply as gatekeeper to another level of education. What a waste of effort, especially when it means next to nothing.</p>
<p>Bill</p>
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		<title>By: Stephen Dill (06/09): Todd, well stirred! It's ... &#8212; BackType</title>
		<link>http://beyond-school.org/2008/06/10/taking-back-teaching/comment-page-2/#comment-8005</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen Dill (06/09): Todd, well stirred! It's ... &#8212; BackType</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Jun 2009 09:56:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://beyond-school.org/?p=716#comment-8005</guid>
		<description>&lt;!--%kramer-ref-pre%--&gt;[...] on http://allnewpubliceducation.com/current-problem and the post I am referring to in entry #3: http://beyond-school.org/2008/06/10/taking-back...But more fundamental is the question of who needs grades? If education is about learning what a [...]&lt;!--%kramer-ref-post%--&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!--%kramer-ref-pre%-->[...] on <a href="http://allnewpubliceducation.com/current-problem" rel="nofollow">http://allnewpubliceducation.com/current-problem</a> and the post I am referring to in entry #3: <a href="http://beyond-school.org/2008/06/10/taking-back...But" rel="nofollow">http://beyond-school.org/2008/06/10/taking-back&#8230;But</a> more fundamental is the question of who needs grades? If education is about learning what a [...]<!--%kramer-ref-post%--></p>
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		<title>By: Justin</title>
		<link>http://beyond-school.org/2008/06/10/taking-back-teaching/comment-page-2/#comment-7126</link>
		<dc:creator>Justin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Dec 2008 02:12:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://beyond-school.org/?p=716#comment-7126</guid>
		<description>I really enjoyed this article and many of the great comments posted in response to it.  I find it troublesome at how many people have the attitude of &quot;yes, grades are bad, I knew it all along!&quot;  They can barely contain their feelings of superiority as they have been keepers of some great secret.  I do not think that grades are inherently bad.  I also think we should think carefully about joining forces to abolish grades - in as much as 200 years ago we should have have thought carefully about bringing them in.  I think it is unwise to demand we switch to an education model on the opposite side of the pendulum swing.

What I find most troubling is the number of people discussing how to best &quot;educate&quot; students, or how our schools are &quot;failing&quot; without discussing what the goals of our education system is, or what it means to educate a person.  How do we know we are failing when we don&#039;t have a goal?  One could arge that the role of the school and teacher is to (in no particular order):

1.  Teach curriculum
2.  Promote a joy of learning
3.  Allow direction in free thought and creativity
4.  Allow students to develop socially and emotionally
5.  Babysit children while both parents are at work

There are surely more goals, or more specific sub-goals.  But which ones do we value most?  Which do we wish to succeed over others?  Do not tell me that our schools are failing because we have lower test scores.  This is what I hear most often and it is a shame.  As Lockhart might say, there are millions of people with the Quadratic Equation burned into their brain with no understanding as to what that means.  If a student forgets everything from their senior math class will they be ok?  Probably, because if you have a 16 year old student, you probably can&#039;t solve their homework problems.  Let&#039;s get our goals straight first - then we can discuss where we are failing.

To go back a step, grades are no inherently bad.  They are a performance indicator.  They are not very specific and should not be used exclusively without other types of feedback.  There is the case that these students need grades to get into University.  And slapping a grade at the end of the year would most likely result in an unfair grade based on no real performance or accurate assessment of the learning that has taken place.  Maybe the student is likable, polite and courteous, the teacher will likely (even subconsciously) asses them improperly.  Given the fact that our society will not get all students in a 1:10 teacher-student ratio, we should be discussing how we can get students to focus on their own learning, rather on the grade itself.

&lt;abbr&gt;&lt;em&gt;Justins last blog post..&lt;a href=&quot;http://techteachengage.wordpress.com/2008/12/06/reducing-student-stress/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Reducing Student Stress&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/abbr&gt;&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I really enjoyed this article and many of the great comments posted in response to it.  I find it troublesome at how many people have the attitude of &#8220;yes, grades are bad, I knew it all along!&#8221;  They can barely contain their feelings of superiority as they have been keepers of some great secret.  I do not think that grades are inherently bad.  I also think we should think carefully about joining forces to abolish grades &#8211; in as much as 200 years ago we should have have thought carefully about bringing them in.  I think it is unwise to demand we switch to an education model on the opposite side of the pendulum swing.</p>
<p>What I find most troubling is the number of people discussing how to best &#8220;educate&#8221; students, or how our schools are &#8220;failing&#8221; without discussing what the goals of our education system is, or what it means to educate a person.  How do we know we are failing when we don&#8217;t have a goal?  One could arge that the role of the school and teacher is to (in no particular order):</p>
<p>1.  Teach curriculum<br />
2.  Promote a joy of learning<br />
3.  Allow direction in free thought and creativity<br />
4.  Allow students to develop socially and emotionally<br />
5.  Babysit children while both parents are at work</p>
<p>There are surely more goals, or more specific sub-goals.  But which ones do we value most?  Which do we wish to succeed over others?  Do not tell me that our schools are failing because we have lower test scores.  This is what I hear most often and it is a shame.  As Lockhart might say, there are millions of people with the Quadratic Equation burned into their brain with no understanding as to what that means.  If a student forgets everything from their senior math class will they be ok?  Probably, because if you have a 16 year old student, you probably can&#8217;t solve their homework problems.  Let&#8217;s get our goals straight first &#8211; then we can discuss where we are failing.</p>
<p>To go back a step, grades are no inherently bad.  They are a performance indicator.  They are not very specific and should not be used exclusively without other types of feedback.  There is the case that these students need grades to get into University.  And slapping a grade at the end of the year would most likely result in an unfair grade based on no real performance or accurate assessment of the learning that has taken place.  Maybe the student is likable, polite and courteous, the teacher will likely (even subconsciously) asses them improperly.  Given the fact that our society will not get all students in a 1:10 teacher-student ratio, we should be discussing how we can get students to focus on their own learning, rather on the grade itself.</p>
<p><abbr><em>Justins last blog post..<a href="http://techteachengage.wordpress.com/2008/12/06/reducing-student-stress/" rel="nofollow">Reducing Student Stress</a></em></abbr></p>
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		<title>By: F.Ellsworth Lockwood</title>
		<link>http://beyond-school.org/2008/06/10/taking-back-teaching/comment-page-2/#comment-7052</link>
		<dc:creator>F.Ellsworth Lockwood</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Dec 2008 01:14:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://beyond-school.org/?p=716#comment-7052</guid>
		<description>My heart breaks as I read the above articles, and I know from experience, the so called &quot;reform&quot; in education has broken what was on the way to becoming a sound education system of its own accord. 

We in Migrant education in the 80&#039;s were on the cutting edge of best practice. Then came along the supposed &quot;Nation at Risk&quot; and all the political lies that went along with it. In Oregon where I taught, a property tax revolution combined with political expediency to create a monster called 21 Century Reform, a flailing giant that trampled everything in the path, including best practices as identified through decades of painstaking research. 

The teaching profession was helpless before the onslaught. Realizing they had to go along to get along, many tried to &quot;steer&quot; the monster in the right direction, but the monster constantly made demands that no one could possibly meet. Demands such as the ridiculous &quot;CIMS&quot; and &quot;CAMS,&quot; which were nothing other than a wish list of dreamers, pushy industrialists, aided and abetted by elitist parents pushing programs suitable for their TAG brats but hopelessly doomed to fail on the larger population.

Students were placed under constant pressure to perform beyond their capacity, all under the false notion that all one must do is &quot;raise the bar&quot; and push harder and everyone will automatically become an Einstein. 

When it failed, as it was doomed to from the start, they claimed it was the fault of teachers, the fault of parents, the fault of teaching methods and techniques ad infinitum. All we needed, the promoters said, was more time. Time to train teachers, time for students to learn (the same high standards for all students) etc. etc. All teachers with any idea of education knew this was all bovine excrement. But on and on it went. How many years, twenty maybe? Did anyone ever earn a Certificate of Advanced Mastery in the State of Oregon? Nobody while I was in teaching ever earned a CAM. Nobody! In at least ten years, not even one student ever earned a CAM in spite of standards being constantly fine tuned. 

You would think it might have occurred to somebody up there that the whole experiment was wrongheaded from the start. But nope. The governments, politicians, the media in general, state departments of educations, Presidents of institutions of higher learning, all seem  to be still insisting on the wisdom of this idiocy. Anybody out there other than me see a naked emperor?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My heart breaks as I read the above articles, and I know from experience, the so called &#8220;reform&#8221; in education has broken what was on the way to becoming a sound education system of its own accord. </p>
<p>We in Migrant education in the 80&#8217;s were on the cutting edge of best practice. Then came along the supposed &#8220;Nation at Risk&#8221; and all the political lies that went along with it. In Oregon where I taught, a property tax revolution combined with political expediency to create a monster called 21 Century Reform, a flailing giant that trampled everything in the path, including best practices as identified through decades of painstaking research. </p>
<p>The teaching profession was helpless before the onslaught. Realizing they had to go along to get along, many tried to &#8220;steer&#8221; the monster in the right direction, but the monster constantly made demands that no one could possibly meet. Demands such as the ridiculous &#8220;CIMS&#8221; and &#8220;CAMS,&#8221; which were nothing other than a wish list of dreamers, pushy industrialists, aided and abetted by elitist parents pushing programs suitable for their TAG brats but hopelessly doomed to fail on the larger population.</p>
<p>Students were placed under constant pressure to perform beyond their capacity, all under the false notion that all one must do is &#8220;raise the bar&#8221; and push harder and everyone will automatically become an Einstein. </p>
<p>When it failed, as it was doomed to from the start, they claimed it was the fault of teachers, the fault of parents, the fault of teaching methods and techniques ad infinitum. All we needed, the promoters said, was more time. Time to train teachers, time for students to learn (the same high standards for all students) etc. etc. All teachers with any idea of education knew this was all bovine excrement. But on and on it went. How many years, twenty maybe? Did anyone ever earn a Certificate of Advanced Mastery in the State of Oregon? Nobody while I was in teaching ever earned a CAM. Nobody! In at least ten years, not even one student ever earned a CAM in spite of standards being constantly fine tuned. </p>
<p>You would think it might have occurred to somebody up there that the whole experiment was wrongheaded from the start. But nope. The governments, politicians, the media in general, state departments of educations, Presidents of institutions of higher learning, all seem  to be still insisting on the wisdom of this idiocy. Anybody out there other than me see a naked emperor?</p>
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		<title>By: Sharper Iron Forums - The tough questions</title>
		<link>http://beyond-school.org/2008/06/10/taking-back-teaching/comment-page-2/#comment-6720</link>
		<dc:creator>Sharper Iron Forums - The tough questions</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Dec 2008 02:16:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://beyond-school.org/?p=716#comment-6720</guid>
		<description>&lt;!--%kramer-ref-pre%--&gt;[...] what we consider &#039;normal&#039;. But what are the roots of our current educational practices? What is the history of grading, for example? Standardized testing? The impact of the NEA on school policy? The history of [...]&lt;!--%kramer-ref-post%--&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!--%kramer-ref-pre%-->[...] what we consider &#8216;normal&#8217;. But what are the roots of our current educational practices? What is the history of grading, for example? Standardized testing? The impact of the NEA on school policy? The history of [...]<!--%kramer-ref-post%--></p>
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		<title>By: Reading Recommendations About Educating and Nurturing Children &#124; A Woman On Purpose</title>
		<link>http://beyond-school.org/2008/06/10/taking-back-teaching/comment-page-2/#comment-5871</link>
		<dc:creator>Reading Recommendations About Educating and Nurturing Children &#124; A Woman On Purpose</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Oct 2008 20:45:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://beyond-school.org/?p=716#comment-5871</guid>
		<description>[...] School has an older post about Taking Back Teaching, which examines &#8220;What are the origins and history of grading in modern education?&#8221;. I [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] School has an older post about Taking Back Teaching, which examines &#8220;What are the origins and history of grading in modern education?&#8221;. I [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Linklog: 2008-10-03 : Ruminate</title>
		<link>http://beyond-school.org/2008/06/10/taking-back-teaching/comment-page-2/#comment-5830</link>
		<dc:creator>Linklog: 2008-10-03 : Ruminate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Oct 2008 13:01:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://beyond-school.org/?p=716#comment-5830</guid>
		<description>[...] Taking Back Teaching: A Forgotten History &#124; Beyond School &#8212; more on the history of education and grading&#8230; [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Taking Back Teaching: A Forgotten History | Beyond School &#8212; more on the history of education and grading&#8230; [...]</p>
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