Comments on: Let Tyranny Ring: Notes on Eggers, Part One http://beyond-school.org/2008/03/20/let-tyranny-ring-notes-on-eggers-part-one/ More learning. Less schooliness. Sun, 07 Mar 2010 01:17:15 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Education - Change.org: Blog http://beyond-school.org/2008/03/20/let-tyranny-ring-notes-on-eggers-part-one/comment-page-1/#comment-7501 Education - Change.org: Blog Sat, 14 Feb 2009 05:20:13 +0000 http://beyond-school.org/2008/03/20/let-tyranny-ring-notes-on-eggers-part-one/#comment-7501 <!--%kramer-ref-pre%-->[...] wrote more on Eggers' talk, and my own reflections from it, months ago in a post called "Let Tyranny Ring," if you're [...]<!--%kramer-ref-post%--> [...] wrote more on Eggers’ talk, and my own reflections from it, months ago in a post called “Let Tyranny Ring,” if you’re [...]

]]> By: An Enchanted Place, Part Two: In Which We Say Goodbye | Beyond School http://beyond-school.org/2008/03/20/let-tyranny-ring-notes-on-eggers-part-one/comment-page-1/#comment-4106 An Enchanted Place, Part Two: In Which We Say Goodbye | Beyond School Sun, 08 Jun 2008 20:28:42 +0000 http://beyond-school.org/2008/03/20/let-tyranny-ring-notes-on-eggers-part-one/#comment-4106 [...] clock, servant of the bell, was, as usual, doing it to me. I strangled the unborn question, “What do you think the Enchanted Place [...] [...] clock, servant of the bell, was, as usual, doing it to me. I strangled the unborn question, “What do you think the Enchanted Place [...]

]]> By: Lee http://beyond-school.org/2008/03/20/let-tyranny-ring-notes-on-eggers-part-one/comment-page-1/#comment-2668 Lee Sun, 23 Mar 2008 19:53:14 +0000 http://beyond-school.org/2008/03/20/let-tyranny-ring-notes-on-eggers-part-one/#comment-2668 Clay, A terrific piece of writing. I comment on it here (http://www.affectedclapping.net/music-and-life/). Dave Eggers has always been a difficult person for me to like. I remember him from my early days in publishing, and he was quite cocky and ego-centric. But Dave Eggers the Publisher is a different person altogether. I like this guy. I can relate to your feelings of questionable enthusiasm. Not questionable in the sense of whether we should teach and talk to our students revealing our own love for what we're doing, merely questionable in the effect it has on our students. Please keep writing, I'll keep reading. Lee <em>Lee's last blog post..<a href='http://www.affectedclapping.net/music-and-life/' rel="nofollow">Music and Life</a></em> Clay,
A terrific piece of writing. I comment on it here (http://www.affectedclapping.net/music-and-life/).

Dave Eggers has always been a difficult person for me to like. I remember him from my early days in publishing, and he was quite cocky and ego-centric. But Dave Eggers the Publisher is a different person altogether. I like this guy.

I can relate to your feelings of questionable enthusiasm. Not questionable in the sense of whether we should teach and talk to our students revealing our own love for what we’re doing, merely questionable in the effect it has on our students.

Please keep writing, I’ll keep reading.

Lee

Lee’s last blog post..Music and Life

]]> By: John Larkin http://beyond-school.org/2008/03/20/let-tyranny-ring-notes-on-eggers-part-one/comment-page-1/#comment-2653 John Larkin Sat, 22 Mar 2008 09:35:34 +0000 http://beyond-school.org/2008/03/20/let-tyranny-ring-notes-on-eggers-part-one/#comment-2653 Clay, in your response to Mr Chips, you mention an earlier specialisation period in high schools. An interesting idea. I wonder how that would be managed and I also think of the fact that our present generation of high school students will probably experience 4 or maybe more careers before they are 40. Should they specialise at high schools given that they may alter their career focus not long after leaving school. Our seniors, in the last two years of high school can focus on a particular specialization in that they may undertake more humanities subjects as opposed to science subjects for example. Mathematics is not compulsory. They focus on the subjects that suit them best. When I went through high school far more students left school at age 16 to go to technical colleges and pick up a trade, get a job and acquire a skill. Fewer went on to the last two years of high school and then went on to university or a teachers' college. Now, students rarely leave high school at the end of four years. They undertake two more years of study designed for students aiming to go to university. So many students are not ready or for this intense period of study. They struggle and it can be quite debilitating for them. Our government is now considering raising the minimum leaving age to 18. That means all students will have to complete all 6 years of high school, including that grueling two years of pre-matriculation courses. I do not think that is the right approach to take. There are options that allow senior students to attend technical colleges part time. There are also opportunities for our senior students to complete university subjects part time before they finish school. They complete these programmes instead of completing a full suite of school based subjects. I think these are good programmes and should be encouraged. It allows students to get a taste of life after school, at least in terms of adult education. It allows the students the freedom to leave the school at various times and experience education in a different environment with a different cohort. That breaks things up for the students a little at least. They get to get out of the school and participate in a subject that does interest them and does meet their needs. Cheers, John <em>John Larkin's last blog post..<a href='http://blog.larkin.net.au/2008/03/18/a-teacher-responds-who-taught-the-experts-in-the-first-place/' rel="nofollow">A teacher responds ~ who taught the experts in the first place?</a></em> Clay, in your response to Mr Chips, you mention an earlier specialisation period in high schools. An interesting idea.

I wonder how that would be managed and I also think of the fact that our present generation of high school students will probably experience 4 or maybe more careers before they are 40. Should they specialise at high schools given that they may alter their career focus not long after leaving school.

Our seniors, in the last two years of high school can focus on a particular specialization in that they may undertake more humanities subjects as opposed to science subjects for example. Mathematics is not compulsory. They focus on the subjects that suit them best.

When I went through high school far more students left school at age 16 to go to technical colleges and pick up a trade, get a job and acquire a skill. Fewer went on to the last two years of high school and then went on to university or a teachers’ college.

Now, students rarely leave high school at the end of four years. They undertake two more years of study designed for students aiming to go to university. So many students are not ready or for this intense period of study. They struggle and it can be quite debilitating for them.

Our government is now considering raising the minimum leaving age to 18. That means all students will have to complete all 6 years of high school, including that grueling two years of pre-matriculation courses. I do not think that is the right approach to take.

There are options that allow senior students to attend technical colleges part time. There are also opportunities for our senior students to complete university subjects part time before they finish school. They complete these programmes instead of completing a full suite of school based subjects.

I think these are good programmes and should be encouraged. It allows students to get a taste of life after school, at least in terms of adult education. It allows the students the freedom to leave the school at various times and experience education in a different environment with a different cohort. That breaks things up for the students a little at least. They get to get out of the school and participate in a subject that does interest them and does meet their needs.

Cheers, John

John Larkin’s last blog post..A teacher responds ~ who taught the experts in the first place?

]]> By: skip olsen http://beyond-school.org/2008/03/20/let-tyranny-ring-notes-on-eggers-part-one/comment-page-1/#comment-2648 skip olsen Fri, 21 Mar 2008 14:52:14 +0000 http://beyond-school.org/2008/03/20/let-tyranny-ring-notes-on-eggers-part-one/#comment-2648 Great discussion. I've got to be careful with my own thinking to avoid the either/or trap. What puzzles me to consternation is why the 15,000 school systems are so much alike. I think high schools work for some kids--they don't work for others. Yesterday our local newspaper reprinted an article from the NYTimes about the growing drop out problem and how under reported it is. Add to that the kids that are just "doing school" and it becomes a major problem. Why can't we throw it out for some kids and teachers? We've nothing to lose and we might gain incredible energy, creativity and fun again. Why can't some schools become learning centers, open till 7 or 9, 6 days a week, all year long? Why can't we invent courses of interest? Why aren't kids working with carpenters, computer techs, artists, writers, etc. for at least some of the day or year? Why do we insist on dismissing their personhood when they walk through the doors having virtually no voice or hope of changing things? Until we "throw it out" we cannot get to the next step. The "engine" designed to deliver public education was created over a hundred years ago and is no longer able to deliver. We must follow our hunches and get on with creating many more experiences for our students and our selves that are worthwhile. Why aren't there hundreds of Eggers-like experiences across the land? We are stuck and I weep for our collective lack of courage, creativity, energy and spirit. I end with a quote that I love because we must begin asking different questions: As the author Thomas Pynchon once wrote, "If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don’t have to worry about the answers." from Pynchon’s book Gravity’s Rainbow. Great discussion. I’ve got to be careful with my own thinking to avoid the either/or trap. What puzzles me to consternation is why the 15,000 school systems are so much alike. I think high schools work for some kids–they don’t work for others. Yesterday our local newspaper reprinted an article from the NYTimes about the growing drop out problem and how under reported it is. Add to that the kids that are just “doing school” and it becomes a major problem. Why can’t we throw it out for some kids and teachers? We’ve nothing to lose and we might gain incredible energy, creativity and fun again. Why can’t some schools become learning centers, open till 7 or 9, 6 days a week, all year long? Why can’t we invent courses of interest? Why aren’t kids working with carpenters, computer techs, artists, writers, etc. for at least some of the day or year? Why do we insist on dismissing their personhood when they walk through the doors having virtually no voice or hope of changing things? Until we “throw it out” we cannot get to the next step. The “engine” designed to deliver public education was created over a hundred years ago and is no longer able to deliver. We must follow our hunches and get on with creating many more experiences for our students and our selves that are worthwhile. Why aren’t there hundreds of Eggers-like experiences across the land? We are stuck and I weep for our collective lack of courage, creativity, energy and spirit. I end with a quote that I love because we must begin asking different questions: As the author Thomas Pynchon once wrote, “If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don’t have to worry about the answers.” from Pynchon’s book Gravity’s Rainbow.

]]> By: Teach and learn http://beyond-school.org/2008/03/20/let-tyranny-ring-notes-on-eggers-part-one/comment-page-1/#comment-2647 Teach and learn Fri, 21 Mar 2008 14:16:02 +0000 http://beyond-school.org/2008/03/20/let-tyranny-ring-notes-on-eggers-part-one/#comment-2647 [...] struck me about his presentation at TED was, aside from how nervous he seemed, much like Clay Burell (If you have not begun you need to start reading this guys blog), how excited he about this project [...] [...] struck me about his presentation at TED was, aside from how nervous he seemed, much like Clay Burell (If you have not begun you need to start reading this guys blog), how excited he about this project [...]

]]> By: John Franke http://beyond-school.org/2008/03/20/let-tyranny-ring-notes-on-eggers-part-one/comment-page-1/#comment-2646 John Franke Fri, 21 Mar 2008 13:23:55 +0000 http://beyond-school.org/2008/03/20/let-tyranny-ring-notes-on-eggers-part-one/#comment-2646 The Bells!!!! The crushing of creativity!!! The decision to move away from the "Bells to Cells format of schooling is just that a decision. I work at a new inner city College Prep High School with no bells. Classes melt into one another, sometimes seamlessly and other times - not so much. I have followed the Eggers Valencia "network" for the last few years and it is a shining example of how learning can be focus, fun, and done without the traditional structure we find in todays school. To do this, educators must bare the yoke of true unconditional love, fun, educational freedom, and focus. Keep up the good fight. <em>John Franke's last blog post..<a href='http://johnfranke.edublogs.org/2008/03/11/fast-schools/' rel="nofollow">Fast Schools</a></em> The Bells!!!!
The crushing of creativity!!!
The decision to move away from the “Bells to Cells format of schooling is just that a decision.
I work at a new inner city College Prep High School with no bells. Classes melt into one another, sometimes seamlessly and other times – not so much. I have followed the Eggers Valencia “network” for the last few years and it is a shining example of how learning can be focus, fun, and done without the traditional structure we find in todays school.
To do this, educators must bare the yoke of true unconditional love, fun, educational freedom, and focus.
Keep up the good fight.

John Franke’s last blog post..Fast Schools

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