Comments on: Quick Round-Up: Bad Selflessness, Bad Morality, Edublog Awards, and Students 2.0 Blog Countdown

By: Chris Watson

Chris Watson — Tue, 04 Dec 2007 23:04:40 +0000

It’s not research, but Malcolm Gladwell wrote a great essay called “Getting In,” about Ivy League admissions.
Also Clay, A student, one the student edubloggers from Honolulu, sent me a TED video, which I’m sure you’ve seen: “Do Schools Kill Creativity.” I loved it, even more for the fact that one of my students sent it to me. So I posted it as homework (although I’ve redefined what ‘homework’ means in my class lately). The student forum that followed was very though-provoking, so much so that I’m preparing a post with some of the discussion threads. The most interesting idea they was raised was that many of their teachers, like you, like me, try to get them to reject schooliness, yet they perpetuate it themselves. One student gave the example of the student-teachers-question-answer discussion. They understand, especially in an English class, maybe, that the teacher isn’t looking for the ‘right’ answer, but that their classmates are, leading to the one or two students that always have a comment. Thanks for the discussion.
PS - I have a class full of biology students looking to make real connections with international students working on sustainability. This is Terry’s class (we were trying to Skype with her a few weeks ago). I’m going to steer them towards PGC.

By: James

James — Fri, 30 Nov 2007 19:57:27 +0000

Excellent thanks ‘Lisa?’. I like how you are putting into perspective. I seemed to get on a rant and forgot that. Its easy to do isn’t it? I’m afraid you might be right that society is not changing much in that regard. There are some bright spots.
Keep the faith I suppose.

On a little note you all may want to try the webbrowser - flock. Its essentially a socially designed firefox. Its making blogging easy for me again. I tend to do it more often then. Lets see if I can get a readership list

By: moseylissa

moseylissa — Fri, 30 Nov 2007 18:03:51 +0000

There is such a study, Clay and Linzel. You can find about it here:
http://www.vanderbilt.edu/Peabody/SMPY/
Granted, they focused on students who are intellectually gifted (SMPY stands for Study of Mathematically Precocious Youth), but the conclusions they have drawn have inspired me to change the way I think about students and people in general.
I think the problem of all the angst in preparing for college stems, in part, from what parents/society value in individuals. Somehow we’ve bought into the myth that if we are wealthy and/or well educated, we are somehow Better Than Average. While that is probably true economically, who’s to say that economics should be the measure by which I determine my worth? I have personally rejected that standard - probably because I can afford to do so. Maybe the discussion to have with your students is to ask “By what measures will you know your life has been successful?” It’s a question I try to remember to ask myself on a regular basis because the answer changes as we move through life.
I’m sure you know more than I do that it’s a battle that we cannot win without society changing drastically, something I don’t see happening any time soon.
Thanks for putting your thoughts into writing, Clay. You frequently give me a lot to think about. I appreciate that!

By: ninja.s

ninja.s — Thu, 29 Nov 2007 18:44:53 +0000

Excellent post. I couldn’t even come close to writing something like that. I really enjoyed reading the post and the insight you provide. Thanks.

By: Clay Burell

Clay Burell — Thu, 29 Nov 2007 05:02:37 +0000

Such a study, if it hasn’t been done already (no time to search now), would be interesting indeed.

To clarify on that 10% disagreed: I’m talking about the high school years as those that are Faustian. It’s the college application rat-race that robs the last four years of “adolescence” of the otherwise possible growth. Those pressures are weeds that choke out the flowers of learning. I’m seeing it all around me.

By: Linzel

Linzel — Thu, 29 Nov 2007 04:41:02 +0000

You know I agree with 90% of what you said Clay. I wish we were discussing this in the SAS cafeteria. It seems that we used to use learning as a pursuit in itself. You had to be independently wealthy to pursue knowledge - clergy or rich. Not much has changed really except maybe things have reversed. Now we pursue knowledge for the cash.

As for grades. Ahhhh my biggest peeve in education. We still use a scam to rate kids. Other than the work load, why can’t we simply tell universities if a kid is going to succeed or not for the program they choose? Yes or no. Can or cannot handle it.

I’d like to see a study [anyone seen one] that tracks the different entrance levels of students as they proceed beyond university. Maybe list their publications, money earned, contributions to society? See if there is some type of correlation between entrance ‘level’ and later success. I’m sure we could standardize for occupational earning levels, socioeconomics etc.

The part I have trouble with is “You may gain the Ivy League, but you lose your soul. You lose your voice, your creativity, your sense of wellness, wonder, and self-impelled exploration.” there is no evidence for this really. I’m sure many ivy leaguers go onto things they really enjoy and contribute positively. I also figure the ivy league may open up channels that encourage voice, creativity and the rest.

I think what erks me is how most people THINK they know something and love to talk out of their field. It seems a PhD in one field provides understanding in other unrelated fields. Economists thikn they understand climate change. Lawyers think they understand evolution. TV hosts think they know everything.
Seems we cannot allow experts to do their job. And lets face it, teachers tend to think we are experts. I hate to break it to you [us] but we’re usually not. For everything I know, there is an equal amount I probably teach inaccurately and ten times what I don’t know. Hence the awesome power of the web. SOMEONE knows. Its just not me. Or you!
I’m ranting!

Maybe teachers perpetuate the problem. We certainly perpetuate chalk and talk. By emulating that we are the fount of knowledge do we perpetuate the meme that we, and the students will, have all the answers? Thats a scary thought!
I actually think the model proposed by the movie ‘Accepted’ may not be all that misplaced.

Rant over. I’m outta steam!

By: diane

diane — Wed, 28 Nov 2007 22:48:11 +0000

Clay,

I read a quote in the newspaper last week about a developer who cited Joni Mitchell’s “Big Yellow Taxi” lyrics
http://tinyurl.com/y99r6x
as justification for a new parking lot!

The world is changing, but not in a positive way. Small appliance repairman are rare indeed in an economy where it is easier - and cheaper - to discard broken items rather than to fix them.

I prepped for the SATs with a book of sample tests and a kitchen timer. My scores earned me a free ride to college and graduate school, and I didn’t have to sacrifice my life as a teenager to move towards my goals.

Throw-away electronics, throw-away youth.

“Don’t it always seem to go
That you don’t know what you’ve got
Till its gone
They paved paradise
And put up a parking lot”

diane