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	<title>Comments on: Four Convergences, Two Views of Education, and One Future to Choose</title>
	<atom:link href="http://beyond-school.org/2007/07/19/four-convergences-two-views-of-education-and-one-future-to-choose/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://beyond-school.org/2007/07/19/four-convergences-two-views-of-education-and-one-future-to-choose/</link>
	<description>. . . and beyond "schooliness"          -           notes of a 20th c. teaching drop-out</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 08 Aug 2008 18:43:03 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Bruce Smith</title>
		<link>http://beyond-school.org/2007/07/19/four-convergences-two-views-of-education-and-one-future-to-choose/#comment-2429</link>
		<dc:creator>Bruce Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Mar 2008 03:12:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://beyond-school.org/?p=290#comment-2429</guid>
		<description>Clay says:  &lt;i&gt;Maybe investors or philanthropists are the way to go to create something different.&lt;/i&gt;

This is &lt;b&gt;precisely&lt;/b&gt; what I'm working to do with &lt;a href="http://www.empoweringchildren.org" rel="nofollow"&gt;CASE&lt;/a&gt;, the Center for Advancing Sudbury Education. 

The primary obstacle facing truly alternative education is that our government has a virtual monopoly on education. We're compelled by law to give financial support to the government's schools; anyone wishing a full-fledged alternative has to pay for that with after-tax dollars. 

Why must we continue to confuse government-guaranteed access to education with the government's being in charge of the schools?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Clay says:  <i>Maybe investors or philanthropists are the way to go to create something different.</i></p>
<p>This is <b>precisely</b> what I&#8217;m working to do with <a href="http://www.empoweringchildren.org" rel="nofollow">CASE</a>, the Center for Advancing Sudbury Education. </p>
<p>The primary obstacle facing truly alternative education is that our government has a virtual monopoly on education. We&#8217;re compelled by law to give financial support to the government&#8217;s schools; anyone wishing a full-fledged alternative has to pay for that with after-tax dollars. </p>
<p>Why must we continue to confuse government-guaranteed access to education with the government&#8217;s being in charge of the schools?</p>
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		<title>By: Bruce Smith</title>
		<link>http://beyond-school.org/2007/07/19/four-convergences-two-views-of-education-and-one-future-to-choose/#comment-2428</link>
		<dc:creator>Bruce Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Mar 2008 03:06:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://beyond-school.org/?p=290#comment-2428</guid>
		<description>Clay,

This discussion hits very close to home; too close for comfort. 

"Should I stay or should I go?" Yes, I was hearing that tune in my own head in the mid-90s, during my stint as a public-school teacher. I decided that, for my own health, I had to leave; but I experienced considerable guilt at the ones I'd be leaving behind.

It's difficult not to get riled up, or to rile others, when discussing such issues. I've often said in public presentations that I'd rather discuss politics and religion than education, because arguing over who's in charge of the country or universe is &lt;b&gt;nothing&lt;/b&gt; compared to arguing over the right way to raise kids. 

So I really don't want to alienate or anger anyone, but I do want to put some of your words up against themselves:

You say:

&lt;i&gt;your comment that it’s better “to keep working in the current system, critiquing it, and at the same time preparing for a new one” is pretty much where I stand&lt;/i&gt;

and also:

&lt;i&gt;I can’t say I have much hope that schools will ever, at least in my lifetime, decide to change themselves into something without bells, prescribed curriculum, and true youth empowerment.&lt;/i&gt;

I can't tell you what's right for you, of course, but I will share with you my choice: I decided that I didn't want to wait until my next lifetime to make a real change. I decided that the best thing I could do would be to do whatever I could to promote an alternative approach, rather than work within (for or against, as a reformer or subversive) a system unlikely to change itself. 

Two roads are diverging in a forest. Granted, one path offers, presently, little in the way of financial rewards; but I'm telling you, Frost had it right: the road less traveled has, for me, made all the difference indeed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Clay,</p>
<p>This discussion hits very close to home; too close for comfort. </p>
<p>&#8220;Should I stay or should I go?&#8221; Yes, I was hearing that tune in my own head in the mid-90s, during my stint as a public-school teacher. I decided that, for my own health, I had to leave; but I experienced considerable guilt at the ones I&#8217;d be leaving behind.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s difficult not to get riled up, or to rile others, when discussing such issues. I&#8217;ve often said in public presentations that I&#8217;d rather discuss politics and religion than education, because arguing over who&#8217;s in charge of the country or universe is <b>nothing</b> compared to arguing over the right way to raise kids. </p>
<p>So I really don&#8217;t want to alienate or anger anyone, but I do want to put some of your words up against themselves:</p>
<p>You say:</p>
<p><i>your comment that it’s better “to keep working in the current system, critiquing it, and at the same time preparing for a new one” is pretty much where I stand</i></p>
<p>and also:</p>
<p><i>I can’t say I have much hope that schools will ever, at least in my lifetime, decide to change themselves into something without bells, prescribed curriculum, and true youth empowerment.</i></p>
<p>I can&#8217;t tell you what&#8217;s right for you, of course, but I will share with you my choice: I decided that I didn&#8217;t want to wait until my next lifetime to make a real change. I decided that the best thing I could do would be to do whatever I could to promote an alternative approach, rather than work within (for or against, as a reformer or subversive) a system unlikely to change itself. </p>
<p>Two roads are diverging in a forest. Granted, one path offers, presently, little in the way of financial rewards; but I&#8217;m telling you, Frost had it right: the road less traveled has, for me, made all the difference indeed.</p>
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		<title>By: dmydlack</title>
		<link>http://beyond-school.org/2007/07/19/four-convergences-two-views-of-education-and-one-future-to-choose/#comment-340</link>
		<dc:creator>dmydlack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Jul 2007 02:51:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://beyond-school.org/?p=290#comment-340</guid>
		<description>Thanks for linking to my film "Voices from the New American Schoolhouse." I enjoyed reading the entire blog.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Please let me know if you are interested in a complimentary DVD of the full length film (80 mins.)&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;You can email me a mailing address.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Danny Mydlack&lt;br/&gt;newamericanschoolhouse.com&lt;br/&gt;dmydlack@towson.edu</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for linking to my film &#8220;Voices from the New American Schoolhouse.&#8221; I enjoyed reading the entire blog.</p>
<p>Please let me know if you are interested in a complimentary DVD of the full length film (80 mins.)</p>
<p>You can email me a mailing address.</p>
<p>Danny Mydlack<br />newamericanschoolhouse.com<br /><a href="mailto:dmydlack@towson.edu">dmydlack@towson.edu</a></p>
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		<title>By: Clay Burell</title>
		<link>http://beyond-school.org/2007/07/19/four-convergences-two-views-of-education-and-one-future-to-choose/#comment-339</link>
		<dc:creator>Clay Burell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Jul 2007 01:39:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://beyond-school.org/?p=290#comment-339</guid>
		<description>Hi Cindy,&lt;br/&gt;I agree about the "foot-soldiers for change" idea - it's what keeps us here thinking and writing and conversing about how to make those changes.  We seem wired for it.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I'm not sure I see anything in Miguel's reply that I can agree with in my own experience in schools of students organizing for much of anything beyond a better prom or lunch, so I wonder if he gave evidence of that.  I also don't think he's fair to Stephen to dismiss Stephen's ideas as "whining," when they are substantive, whereas Miguel's response is not.  I'm new to Downes, so this makes me curious about the treatment his ideas receive.  (I've also occasionally read Miguel, and seen him once at least consider quitting his job because he's seeing no change in education, so he seems conflicted about this basic issue.)&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;By "one future to choose" I really was hinting at the possibility of quitting school at some point to explore alternative educations without them. (Again, the paycheck is a golden handcuff that makes this a challenge.)&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I know that "Abby" is the daughter of privilege, so her "unschooling" is problematic.  Most students' parents are not a sleep-researching father and stay-at-home mother like hers.  So finding alternatives for all, instead of just the privileged, leads me to dead ends right now.  &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;But the idea of spending my last decades participating in attempts to create alternatives to a system that, if not "totally" broken still attracts me.  Yes, I've seen moments of value in my classrooms.  But the cost-benefit analysis of those moments for young people doesn't comfort me.  Are they worth 12 years of factory processing we subject our students to?&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;And isn't the search for other ways an attractive one?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Cindy,<br />I agree about the &#8220;foot-soldiers for change&#8221; idea - it&#8217;s what keeps us here thinking and writing and conversing about how to make those changes.  We seem wired for it.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not sure I see anything in Miguel&#8217;s reply that I can agree with in my own experience in schools of students organizing for much of anything beyond a better prom or lunch, so I wonder if he gave evidence of that.  I also don&#8217;t think he&#8217;s fair to Stephen to dismiss Stephen&#8217;s ideas as &#8220;whining,&#8221; when they are substantive, whereas Miguel&#8217;s response is not.  I&#8217;m new to Downes, so this makes me curious about the treatment his ideas receive.  (I&#8217;ve also occasionally read Miguel, and seen him once at least consider quitting his job because he&#8217;s seeing no change in education, so he seems conflicted about this basic issue.)</p>
<p>By &#8220;one future to choose&#8221; I really was hinting at the possibility of quitting school at some point to explore alternative educations without them. (Again, the paycheck is a golden handcuff that makes this a challenge.)</p>
<p>I know that &#8220;Abby&#8221; is the daughter of privilege, so her &#8220;unschooling&#8221; is problematic.  Most students&#8217; parents are not a sleep-researching father and stay-at-home mother like hers.  So finding alternatives for all, instead of just the privileged, leads me to dead ends right now.  </p>
<p>But the idea of spending my last decades participating in attempts to create alternatives to a system that, if not &#8220;totally&#8221; broken still attracts me.  Yes, I&#8217;ve seen moments of value in my classrooms.  But the cost-benefit analysis of those moments for young people doesn&#8217;t comfort me.  Are they worth 12 years of factory processing we subject our students to?</p>
<p>And isn&#8217;t the search for other ways an attractive one?</p>
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		<title>By: Cindy Barnsley</title>
		<link>http://beyond-school.org/2007/07/19/four-convergences-two-views-of-education-and-one-future-to-choose/#comment-338</link>
		<dc:creator>Cindy Barnsley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Jul 2007 14:20:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://beyond-school.org/?p=290#comment-338</guid>
		<description>Hi&lt;br/&gt;Also liked this from &lt;a HREF="http://www.edsupport.cc/mguhlin/index.htm" REL="nofollow"&gt;Miguel Guhlin&lt;/a&gt; in response to Stephen Downes: &lt;br/&gt;"Why? Why should we 'bring learning to students' when they are so eminently capable--or not since we need some system to rebel against, like traditional schools--of organizing themselves against the totaliarinism (sp? use?) of schools? Let's stop whining about changing our schools, and just share how these personal communication tools are powerful in our own lives, how we are using them to change what we do AFTER school, and remind kids that while learning is 24/7, school is from 8:00 AM to 3:30 PM, hence all the more valuable for that."</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi<br />Also liked this from <a HREF="http://www.edsupport.cc/mguhlin/index.htm" REL="nofollow">Miguel Guhlin</a> in response to Stephen Downes: <br />&#8220;Why? Why should we &#8216;bring learning to students&#8217; when they are so eminently capable&#8211;or not since we need some system to rebel against, like traditional schools&#8211;of organizing themselves against the totaliarinism (sp? use?) of schools? Let&#8217;s stop whining about changing our schools, and just share how these personal communication tools are powerful in our own lives, how we are using them to change what we do AFTER school, and remind kids that while learning is 24/7, school is from 8:00 AM to 3:30 PM, hence all the more valuable for that.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Cindy Barnsley</title>
		<link>http://beyond-school.org/2007/07/19/four-convergences-two-views-of-education-and-one-future-to-choose/#comment-337</link>
		<dc:creator>Cindy Barnsley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Jul 2007 13:41:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://beyond-school.org/?p=290#comment-337</guid>
		<description>I thought of an &lt;a HREF="http://www.abc.net.au/tv/enoughrope/transcripts/s1632918.htm" REL="nofollow"&gt;interview&lt;/a&gt; with a famous Australian cartoonist, Michael Leunig, when I read your post. It is interesting that he is touted as one of the most creative people in the country and has chosen homeschooling for his children. When asked about homeschooling his children he said: &lt;br/&gt;"Well, they learn, you see, children want to learn. I think healthy children just, you can't stop them learning and so you've got to provide, it's a matter of provision. You create an environment where they are keen and eager to, and curious, and so, for instance, my daughter, Minna, loves her horses. She has a couple of horses and the horse is the teacher at that point. When they're walking across the paddock, paddock is the teacher, the snake that crawls in front of them is the teacher. When they're helping fix a fence or fix the pump, that is the teacher. Children's eyes go to things, they sparkle when they see something, so you say, "OK, we'll go there. We follow that". You follow things."&lt;br/&gt;This is an important thought. How do we open up ways to "follow things" and provide more choice about what these "things" are?&lt;br/&gt;I thought it was interesting that one of the students in the video you embedded talked about teenagers need to talk - I can't remember where I read it but I recall one study that reported that students on average asked one to two questions a day in class. That's an awful thought that you sit in a place for six hours and speak twice. Another of the students spoke about how "doing" was so much more powerful that listening to someone out the front talking. However, if you think back to any teachers who had an impact on your life they weren't the ones that stood out the front and told you stuff. They were the ones who asked questions that made you think, who challenged you to question your ideas and society's values. They were the "teachers" who helped you to make connections between what you were thinking/writing/talking about. Like Buddha, they were the people who said "don't believe this because I say so, believe it because it seems true for you". I have to say, and maybe I'm constrained by my own Deweyian "illusion of perspective", that we are thinking critically about these educational and democratic issues because of, not in spite of, our liberal education.  &lt;br/&gt;Christopher Sessums, on &lt;a HREF="http://elgg.net/csessums/weblog/" REL="nofollow"&gt;school reform&lt;/a&gt; and read/write technologies, wrote how: Every action is a political action, and every action shapes our collective future in some way or another. Can bloggers call for this new task force, help outline the course of action, or is our perspective so limited by our choice of Read/Write technologies that we will not be able to see the whole picture as clearly as we need to?"&lt;br/&gt;Sylvia's reiteration of Papert's comment that: "what you do on Monday should lead to "someday" is also crucial. We need to imagine and realise practical reform now. Given that I agree that schools in the next decade or two (at the most optimistic) aren't going to change radically we need to be foot soldiers of change, even if it seems to be at the edges, and to push for systemic reform that recognises and values intrinsically rewarding learning. I think there are a lot of positives - if I thought the system was hopelessly dysfunctional and beyond repair I would find another job tomorrow. &lt;br/&gt;Maybe I'm just being reactionary...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I thought of an <a HREF="http://www.abc.net.au/tv/enoughrope/transcripts/s1632918.htm" REL="nofollow">interview</a> with a famous Australian cartoonist, Michael Leunig, when I read your post. It is interesting that he is touted as one of the most creative people in the country and has chosen homeschooling for his children. When asked about homeschooling his children he said: <br />&#8220;Well, they learn, you see, children want to learn. I think healthy children just, you can&#8217;t stop them learning and so you&#8217;ve got to provide, it&#8217;s a matter of provision. You create an environment where they are keen and eager to, and curious, and so, for instance, my daughter, Minna, loves her horses. She has a couple of horses and the horse is the teacher at that point. When they&#8217;re walking across the paddock, paddock is the teacher, the snake that crawls in front of them is the teacher. When they&#8217;re helping fix a fence or fix the pump, that is the teacher. Children&#8217;s eyes go to things, they sparkle when they see something, so you say, &#8220;OK, we&#8217;ll go there. We follow that&#8221;. You follow things.&#8221;<br />This is an important thought. How do we open up ways to &#8220;follow things&#8221; and provide more choice about what these &#8220;things&#8221; are?<br />I thought it was interesting that one of the students in the video you embedded talked about teenagers need to talk - I can&#8217;t remember where I read it but I recall one study that reported that students on average asked one to two questions a day in class. That&#8217;s an awful thought that you sit in a place for six hours and speak twice. Another of the students spoke about how &#8220;doing&#8221; was so much more powerful that listening to someone out the front talking. However, if you think back to any teachers who had an impact on your life they weren&#8217;t the ones that stood out the front and told you stuff. They were the ones who asked questions that made you think, who challenged you to question your ideas and society&#8217;s values. They were the &#8220;teachers&#8221; who helped you to make connections between what you were thinking/writing/talking about. Like Buddha, they were the people who said &#8220;don&#8217;t believe this because I say so, believe it because it seems true for you&#8221;. I have to say, and maybe I&#8217;m constrained by my own Deweyian &#8220;illusion of perspective&#8221;, that we are thinking critically about these educational and democratic issues because of, not in spite of, our liberal education.  <br />Christopher Sessums, on <a HREF="http://elgg.net/csessums/weblog/" REL="nofollow">school reform</a> and read/write technologies, wrote how: Every action is a political action, and every action shapes our collective future in some way or another. Can bloggers call for this new task force, help outline the course of action, or is our perspective so limited by our choice of Read/Write technologies that we will not be able to see the whole picture as clearly as we need to?&#8221;<br />Sylvia&#8217;s reiteration of Papert&#8217;s comment that: &#8220;what you do on Monday should lead to &#8220;someday&#8221; is also crucial. We need to imagine and realise practical reform now. Given that I agree that schools in the next decade or two (at the most optimistic) aren&#8217;t going to change radically we need to be foot soldiers of change, even if it seems to be at the edges, and to push for systemic reform that recognises and values intrinsically rewarding learning. I think there are a lot of positives - if I thought the system was hopelessly dysfunctional and beyond repair I would find another job tomorrow. <br />Maybe I&#8217;m just being reactionary&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: tom</title>
		<link>http://beyond-school.org/2007/07/19/four-convergences-two-views-of-education-and-one-future-to-choose/#comment-336</link>
		<dc:creator>tom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Jul 2007 09:57:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://beyond-school.org/?p=290#comment-336</guid>
		<description>Clay,&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Here's another convergence for you: I'm a fan of Illich too, and I've made reference to him several times in my &lt;a HREF="http://tryangulation.typepad.com" REL="nofollow"&gt;blog&lt;/a&gt;. &lt;br/&gt;I too question whether school can be repaired from within. &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Part of the pathology of institutions is that they divert more and more of their resources to self-preservation, and away from the ideals that were behind their establishment. One method is to create the sense of indispensability: how many people (and especially teachers and administrators) would say that school is optional, even though they agree that the outcome of schooling is deficient?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Clay,</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s another convergence for you: I&#8217;m a fan of Illich too, and I&#8217;ve made reference to him several times in my <a HREF="http://tryangulation.typepad.com" REL="nofollow">blog</a>. <br />I too question whether school can be repaired from within. </p>
<p>Part of the pathology of institutions is that they divert more and more of their resources to self-preservation, and away from the ideals that were behind their establishment. One method is to create the sense of indispensability: how many people (and especially teachers and administrators) would say that school is optional, even though they agree that the outcome of schooling is deficient?</p>
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		<title>By: Clay Burell</title>
		<link>http://beyond-school.org/2007/07/19/four-convergences-two-views-of-education-and-one-future-to-choose/#comment-332</link>
		<dc:creator>Clay Burell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Jul 2007 23:35:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://beyond-school.org/?p=290#comment-332</guid>
		<description>Good points, D and S.  Sylvia, your comment that it's better "to keep working in the current system, critiquing it, and at the same time preparing for a new one" is pretty much where I stand - again, unless a rich uncle dies, I have not much choice to "finish school" myself.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;That Knowsley initiative to build new institutions is interesting in this respect.  It almost seems (minus the Microsoft element) a futuristic version of the Sudbury model, with a bit of unschooling thrown in.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I just read somebody (maybe Downes?) saying that we'll never change our workplace until the owners or big shareholders have a change of heart themselves.  &lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I can't say I have much hope that schools will ever, at least in my lifetime, decide to change themselves into something without bells, prescribed  curriculum, and true youth empowerment.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;In fact, I wonder if trying to influence the bosses to do that is the surest way to being "expelled" as a teacher for "heresy."  (Illich quotes Durkheim or Weber, I forget, arguing that education is essentially a new religion with taboos that can lead to excommunication.)&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Maybe investors or philanthropists are the way to go to create something different.&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Thanks as usual~</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good points, D and S.  Sylvia, your comment that it&#8217;s better &#8220;to keep working in the current system, critiquing it, and at the same time preparing for a new one&#8221; is pretty much where I stand - again, unless a rich uncle dies, I have not much choice to &#8220;finish school&#8221; myself.</p>
<p>That Knowsley initiative to build new institutions is interesting in this respect.  It almost seems (minus the Microsoft element) a futuristic version of the Sudbury model, with a bit of unschooling thrown in.</p>
<p>I just read somebody (maybe Downes?) saying that we&#8217;ll never change our workplace until the owners or big shareholders have a change of heart themselves.  </p>
<p>I can&#8217;t say I have much hope that schools will ever, at least in my lifetime, decide to change themselves into something without bells, prescribed  curriculum, and true youth empowerment.</p>
<p>In fact, I wonder if trying to influence the bosses to do that is the surest way to being &#8220;expelled&#8221; as a teacher for &#8220;heresy.&#8221;  (Illich quotes Durkheim or Weber, I forget, arguing that education is essentially a new religion with taboos that can lead to excommunication.)</p>
<p>Maybe investors or philanthropists are the way to go to create something different.</p>
<p>Thanks as usual~</p>
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		<title>By: Sylvia</title>
		<link>http://beyond-school.org/2007/07/19/four-convergences-two-views-of-education-and-one-future-to-choose/#comment-331</link>
		<dc:creator>Sylvia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Jul 2007 22:02:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://beyond-school.org/?p=290#comment-331</guid>
		<description>I guess to do all three involves some sacrifice of a perfectly consistent world view. I remember Seymour Papert answering a question at a conference from a teacher who said something like, "what you say is all well and good, but what do I do on Monday?" He said essentially that what you do on Monday should lead to "someday."&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;I don't know if that means "salvage" or creating building blocks that are so good that they will survive tectonic shifts in the foundation. I really like the "unchaining expectations" idea...&lt;br/&gt;&lt;br/&gt;Hey, just like the grindstone either wears you down or polishes you, it seems to me to be better to keep working in the current system, critiquing it, and at the same time preparing for a new one. The effort will pay off in both sharpening your perspective, and impacting children's lives here and how in a positive way in spite of the obstacles.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I guess to do all three involves some sacrifice of a perfectly consistent world view. I remember Seymour Papert answering a question at a conference from a teacher who said something like, &#8220;what you say is all well and good, but what do I do on Monday?&#8221; He said essentially that what you do on Monday should lead to &#8220;someday.&#8221;</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know if that means &#8220;salvage&#8221; or creating building blocks that are so good that they will survive tectonic shifts in the foundation. I really like the &#8220;unchaining expectations&#8221; idea&#8230;</p>
<p>Hey, just like the grindstone either wears you down or polishes you, it seems to me to be better to keep working in the current system, critiquing it, and at the same time preparing for a new one. The effort will pay off in both sharpening your perspective, and impacting children&#8217;s lives here and how in a positive way in spite of the obstacles.</p>
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		<title>By: Doug Noon</title>
		<link>http://beyond-school.org/2007/07/19/four-convergences-two-views-of-education-and-one-future-to-choose/#comment-330</link>
		<dc:creator>Doug Noon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Jul 2007 19:55:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://beyond-school.org/?p=290#comment-330</guid>
		<description>I'm working through Illich now, front to back in my own dogged fashion, wanting to give him a full hearing. As Sylvia points out, the contradictions inherent in accepting his point of view and advocating &lt;em&gt;anything&lt;/em&gt; for schools is a major problem. As I understand him, the challenge is one of reordering our worldview, unchaining our expectations from the limitations of an institutional vision that defines who we are and what we might become. I'm thinking in terms of salvage operations at this point.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m working through Illich now, front to back in my own dogged fashion, wanting to give him a full hearing. As Sylvia points out, the contradictions inherent in accepting his point of view and advocating <em>anything</em> for schools is a major problem. As I understand him, the challenge is one of reordering our worldview, unchaining our expectations from the limitations of an institutional vision that defines who we are and what we might become. I&#8217;m thinking in terms of salvage operations at this point.</p>
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