Comments on: Teaching Grammar on the Titanic: On Fear and Irrelevance in Education http://beyond-school.org/2007/07/12/teaching-grammar-on-the-titanic-on-fear-and-irrelevance-in-education/ . . . and beyond "schooliness" - notes of a 20th c. teaching drop-out Sat, 05 Jul 2008 09:51:51 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5 By: Ditch the digital/native catchcry | thinking 2.0 http://beyond-school.org/2007/07/12/teaching-grammar-on-the-titanic-on-fear-and-irrelevance-in-education/#comment-4325 Ditch the digital/native catchcry | thinking 2.0 Tue, 24 Jun 2008 23:15:09 +0000 http://beyond-school.org/?p=279#comment-4325 <!--%kramer-ref-pre%-->[...] Lifting the fogDoug’s Ed.D. blog » Information Literacy on Literacy in a digital worldTeaching Grammar on the Titanic: On Fear and Irrelevance in Education | Beyond School on Dissenting VoicesTrina on Change is your friendWhat’s the key to systemic success? : [...]<!--%kramer-ref-post%--> Kramer auto Pingback[…] Lifting the fogDoug’s Ed.D. blog » Information Literacy on Literacy in a digital worldTeaching Grammar on the Titanic: On Fear and Irrelevance in Education | Beyond School on Dissenting VoicesTrina on Change is your friendWhat’s the key to systemic success? : […]

]]> By: Fear-Based Curriculum: A Language Arts Tragedy (More on Teaching Lolita) | Beyond School http://beyond-school.org/2007/07/12/teaching-grammar-on-the-titanic-on-fear-and-irrelevance-in-education/#comment-3248 Fear-Based Curriculum: A Language Arts Tragedy (More on Teaching Lolita) | Beyond School Mon, 14 Apr 2008 21:40:44 +0000 http://beyond-school.org/?p=279#comment-3248 [...] night, and that her school never warned her about in the daytime? This latest example of “fear and irrelevance in education” gives the one tragically twisted twist to the term “hidden [...] […] night, and that her school never warned her about in the daytime? This latest example of “fear and irrelevance in education” gives the one tragically twisted twist to the term “hidden […]

]]> By: “What is Schooliness?” - Overview and Open Thread | Beyond School http://beyond-school.org/2007/07/12/teaching-grammar-on-the-titanic-on-fear-and-irrelevance-in-education/#comment-2406 “What is Schooliness?” - Overview and Open Thread | Beyond School Mon, 03 Mar 2008 21:49:43 +0000 http://beyond-school.org/?p=279#comment-2406 [...] is from, “Teaching Grammar on the Titanic: On Fear and Irrelevance in Education“: So: the problem with me, as a teacher, is that I design units that don’t address anything [...] […] is from, “Teaching Grammar on the Titanic: On Fear and Irrelevance in Education“: So: the problem with me, as a teacher, is that I design units that don’t address anything […]

]]> By: “What is Schooliness?” - Discursus and Open Thread (Clay Burell guest-post 2) » Moving at the Speed of Creativity http://beyond-school.org/2007/07/12/teaching-grammar-on-the-titanic-on-fear-and-irrelevance-in-education/#comment-2371 “What is Schooliness?” - Discursus and Open Thread (Clay Burell guest-post 2) » Moving at the Speed of Creativity Sun, 02 Mar 2008 00:43:13 +0000 http://beyond-school.org/?p=279#comment-2371 [...] if from, “Teaching Grammar on the Titanic: On Fear and Irrelevance in Education“: So: the problem with me, as a teacher, is that I design units that don’t address anything [...] […] if from, “Teaching Grammar on the Titanic: On Fear and Irrelevance in Education“: So: the problem with me, as a teacher, is that I design units that don’t address anything […]

]]> By: Refining Global Collaboration Projects in Education | Beyond School http://beyond-school.org/2007/07/12/teaching-grammar-on-the-titanic-on-fear-and-irrelevance-in-education/#comment-1955 Refining Global Collaboration Projects in Education | Beyond School Sun, 03 Feb 2008 03:00:32 +0000 http://beyond-school.org/?p=279#comment-1955 [...] been thinking about the experience of the first 1001 Tales wiki workshop last year, and writing and podcasting pretty frequently about possible pitfalls and improvements for this year, so I hope [...] […] been thinking about the experience of the first 1001 Tales wiki workshop last year, and writing and podcasting pretty frequently about possible pitfalls and improvements for this year, so I hope […]

]]> By: On Fear and Irrelevance in Education - Revised | Beyond School http://beyond-school.org/2007/07/12/teaching-grammar-on-the-titanic-on-fear-and-irrelevance-in-education/#comment-1112 On Fear and Irrelevance in Education - Revised | Beyond School Mon, 10 Dec 2007 21:28:11 +0000 http://beyond-school.org/?p=279#comment-1112 [...] is a re-post from last summer. I was too young a blogger then to realize summers are not prime time for [...] […] is a re-post from last summer. I was too young a blogger then to realize summers are not prime time for […]

]]> By: Clay Burell http://beyond-school.org/2007/07/12/teaching-grammar-on-the-titanic-on-fear-and-irrelevance-in-education/#comment-318 Clay Burell Tue, 17 Jul 2007 08:21:00 +0000 http://beyond-school.org/?p=279#comment-318 Cindy, You're right: "Effective writing (including media) - genuinely persuasive communication - creates engagement with others, as you mentioned with Mabry's Chocolate Wars video. It can help you understand a problem and want to find/be part of a solution. So while the writer themselves may act (Orwell) the writer's words can prompt thousands, if not millions, of others to act (Smith, Marx)." <br/><br/>I strongly agree with what you're saying. It also makes me see the need to clarify that an emphasis on "action" needn't be on the vast Romantic scale, but rather on the individual and personal - shopping choices are a good example.<br/><br/>If the Mabry students, who really did dissuade me from supporting Snickers and Mars, are still buying their Snickers after making their film - are not changing their own actions, while urging others to do so - I still find that problematic. A side issue, I guess.<br/><br/>Thanks for the Eagleton article. Will read. His Theory intro was a mainstay in college.<br/><br/>And for the record, I was quoting Christopher Sessums in that "periphery ideas" line. Cindy, You’re right: “Effective writing (including media) - genuinely persuasive communication - creates engagement with others, as you mentioned with Mabry’s Chocolate Wars video. It can help you understand a problem and want to find/be part of a solution. So while the writer themselves may act (Orwell) the writer’s words can prompt thousands, if not millions, of others to act (Smith, Marx).”

I strongly agree with what you’re saying. It also makes me see the need to clarify that an emphasis on “action” needn’t be on the vast Romantic scale, but rather on the individual and personal - shopping choices are a good example.

If the Mabry students, who really did dissuade me from supporting Snickers and Mars, are still buying their Snickers after making their film - are not changing their own actions, while urging others to do so - I still find that problematic. A side issue, I guess.

Thanks for the Eagleton article. Will read. His Theory intro was a mainstay in college.

And for the record, I was quoting Christopher Sessums in that “periphery ideas” line.

]]> By: Cindy Barnsley http://beyond-school.org/2007/07/12/teaching-grammar-on-the-titanic-on-fear-and-irrelevance-in-education/#comment-317 Cindy Barnsley Tue, 17 Jul 2007 08:04:00 +0000 http://beyond-school.org/?p=279#comment-317 Hi, <br/>I was thinking about whether writing is enough in itself ("whether writing alone promotes engagement")- but maybe this is wrong question. Often writing is "good" because it connects with others. On that basis it is both a precursor to, and partner of, action. The problem with "schooly" writing is that it is so disconnected and decontextualised that it becomes meaningless - it has no apparent relevance to students' lives. <br/>Effective writing (including media) - genuinely persuasive communication - creates engagement with others, as you mentioned with Mabry's Chocolate Wars video. It can help you understand a problem and want to find/be part of a solution. So while the writer themselves may act (Orwell) the writer's words can prompt thousands, if not millions, of others to act (Smith, Marx). On this note, check out <a HREF="http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,,2120880,00.html" REL="nofollow">this article</a> in The Guardian, by Terry Eagleton, who writes that "For almost the first time in two centuries, there is no eminent British poet, playwright or novelist prepared to question the foundations of the western way of life." It has been this critical creativity (not the sole reserve of writers I know) that has, as you write, brought "new ideas from the periphery to the mainstream".<br/>It is this creativity that great "teachers/leaders" help you to find.<br/>Thanks.<br/>C. Hi,
I was thinking about whether writing is enough in itself (”whether writing alone promotes engagement”)- but maybe this is wrong question. Often writing is “good” because it connects with others. On that basis it is both a precursor to, and partner of, action. The problem with “schooly” writing is that it is so disconnected and decontextualised that it becomes meaningless - it has no apparent relevance to students’ lives.
Effective writing (including media) - genuinely persuasive communication - creates engagement with others, as you mentioned with Mabry’s Chocolate Wars video. It can help you understand a problem and want to find/be part of a solution. So while the writer themselves may act (Orwell) the writer’s words can prompt thousands, if not millions, of others to act (Smith, Marx). On this note, check out this article in The Guardian, by Terry Eagleton, who writes that “For almost the first time in two centuries, there is no eminent British poet, playwright or novelist prepared to question the foundations of the western way of life.” It has been this critical creativity (not the sole reserve of writers I know) that has, as you write, brought “new ideas from the periphery to the mainstream”.
It is this creativity that great “teachers/leaders” help you to find.
Thanks.
C.

]]> By: Clay Burell http://beyond-school.org/2007/07/12/teaching-grammar-on-the-titanic-on-fear-and-irrelevance-in-education/#comment-310 Clay Burell Mon, 16 Jul 2007 17:39:00 +0000 http://beyond-school.org/?p=279#comment-310 Cindy, this is over-due. Sorry. I'm so in agreement with you on the value of writing, and don't mean at all to imply it should be minimized in any way. <br/><br/><i>Maybe</i> we disagree on whether writing alone qualifies as engagement. So many of our writers both wrote and took action - Orwell in Spain, Gandhi everywhere come to mind, who else? To couple active involvement to what one writes about would, I would think, fuel further writing?<br/><br/>But to be really clear, here: that duty of ours to help our charges find their voices about things worth writing about - again, I'm in total agreement with you.<br/><br/>I'm watching videos made by Mabry Middle School (in US, that's age 11-14, I think) students that are incredibly engaged and consequential, as well as well-written. See them <a HREF="http://edcommunity.apple.com/ali/item.php?itemID=11842" REL="nofollow">here</a>, at about the midway point.<br/><br/>Thanks as usual. Your writing, by the way, changes me. So maybe you're on to something. Cindy, this is over-due. Sorry. I’m so in agreement with you on the value of writing, and don’t mean at all to imply it should be minimized in any way.

Maybe we disagree on whether writing alone qualifies as engagement. So many of our writers both wrote and took action - Orwell in Spain, Gandhi everywhere come to mind, who else? To couple active involvement to what one writes about would, I would think, fuel further writing?

But to be really clear, here: that duty of ours to help our charges find their voices about things worth writing about - again, I’m in total agreement with you.

I’m watching videos made by Mabry Middle School (in US, that’s age 11-14, I think) students that are incredibly engaged and consequential, as well as well-written. See them here, at about the midway point.

Thanks as usual. Your writing, by the way, changes me. So maybe you’re on to something.

]]> By: Clix http://beyond-school.org/2007/07/12/teaching-grammar-on-the-titanic-on-fear-and-irrelevance-in-education/#comment-309 Clix Sat, 14 Jul 2007 12:41:00 +0000 http://beyond-school.org/?p=279#comment-309 Oops! I thought I had, but it seems that it links to my main page. The direct URL is http://uncomfortableadventures.blogspot.com/2007/07/relevance-consequence-and-adolescents.html<br/><br/>In starting with something local, you're right, it probably wouldn't be one of the Big Issues, as there's no "immediate affect" for them (I mention the importance of clear success in the post). However, a process as entrenched as global warming is not going to be immediately affected by what they do, either.<br/><br/>It's easy to feel overwhelmed by large-scale systemic problems. I think that students who have experienced success tackling something else will be better equipped for the challenges involved in working toward a goal that's larger than they are.<br/><br/>The fact that I think other issues are more important than global warming isn't really the issue I want to raise - just happens to be a point of personal disagreement. I think students who're just getting started as problem-solvers need to see a clear connection between what they do and the solution to the problem. Oops! I thought I had, but it seems that it links to my main page. The direct URL is http://uncomfortableadventures.blogspot.com/2007/07/relevance-consequence-and-adolescents.html

In starting with something local, you’re right, it probably wouldn’t be one of the Big Issues, as there’s no “immediate affect” for them (I mention the importance of clear success in the post). However, a process as entrenched as global warming is not going to be immediately affected by what they do, either.

It’s easy to feel overwhelmed by large-scale systemic problems. I think that students who have experienced success tackling something else will be better equipped for the challenges involved in working toward a goal that’s larger than they are.

The fact that I think other issues are more important than global warming isn’t really the issue I want to raise - just happens to be a point of personal disagreement. I think students who’re just getting started as problem-solvers need to see a clear connection between what they do and the solution to the problem.

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